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Tips From the HR Experts: Best-Selling Authors on Management 101

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February 09, 2021

Although it’s almost been a year since the pandemic began, there still isn’t a one-size-fits-all approach to managing your team. These days, managers must adapt and change to not only maintain productivity, but make sure each employee feels supported.

What can managers do to streamline processes and communicate better with a potentially stressed-out, burned-out team?

Join Engage by Cell and Barbara Mitchell and Cornelia Gamlem, HR experts and best-selling authors of The Big Book of HR and The Manager’s Answer Book as they shared:

  • Important skills that managers need, especially during times of uncertainty
  • Advice on managing stress and employee morale
  • Virtual onboarding and recruiting options
  • Mobile technology best practices to support any HR department or team

About Barbara Mitchell and Cornelia Gamlem

A writing partnership was born in 2012 when Barbara Mitchell and Cornelia Gamlem cowrote The Big Book of HR. Since then, they’ve gone on to write four more books, the most recent, They Did What? Unbelievable Tales from the Workplace. They are influencers to the business and HR communities and have been interviewed in major radio markets around the country, quoted in major publications including The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and Fast Company. Their works have received awards most notably from Next Generation Indie Book Award, which recognizes authors world-wide.

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Full Transcript

Alexandra Harper  0:00    :  My name's Alexandra Harper. I am born and raised here in Nashville. I've sort of dabbled in several different industries after I graduated from the University of Tennessee. So I've been in sales, broadcast journalism. I was a professional writer for a little bit. And I've been working for the mobile technology company Engage by Cell since last March. Daphne, you want to introduce yourself?

Daphne Harper  0:29    :  Good afternoon, everyone and welcome to our presentation, we are so excited to share with you this information that I think a lot of you will find very professionally interesting, as we are working today with some HR experts. My background is in technology and software sales as well. And I am excited to be partnering with all of you so that you can achieve your goals of communication with your internal teams, as well as possibly with some customers that you want to maintain connection with. I'd like to have our guests our esteemed guests to introduce themselves as well. They are notable in the HR arena experts. They've been interviewed all across the country on radio shows, as well as they've been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and Forbes magazine. 

Alexandra Harper  1:29    :  Just a very average bio.

Daphne Harper  1:38    :  So we'll start with Barbara. Do you want to give us a little bit about your background?

Barbara Mitchell  1:44    :  Well, I'm in Washington, DC, where it's also cold, Alex, so you're not alone there. My background is in human resources, most of which was with Marriott International, here in Washington, and actually all over the country. My passion is around the hiring process, bringing the right people into the organization. I've been a consultant for about 20 years, working with all kinds of companies from large companies to small nonprofits. And then I'm now focusing a lot on writing books around HR and business practices. And a fun  new book that we may tell you a little bit about later that we just published in December.

Alexandra Harper  2:29    :  Wonderful and we're very excited to hear about that as well. 

Daphne Harper  2:34    :  Cornelia?

Cornelia Gamlem  2:35    :  Sure, um, I'm Cornelia Gamlem. I'm from Albuquerque, New Mexico, although I spent probably the past 30, almost 30 years in the Washington DC area, which is how Barbara and I got to know each other. I spent most of my HR career originally with a large systems integrated Computer Sciences Corporation. And I moved into the consulting world probably around the same time Barbara did with within a year or two of each other, and started to focus more in the area of employee relations, because that's where my passion is: helping employees, you know, figure out some of the issues that that may arise in their organization, and what they can do to avoid some of those issues. And like Barbara, we both kind of morphed into being writers and authors when we got the opportunity to put together the big book of HR almost 10 years ago. So, we've had a good writing partnership ever since and we're really excited to talk about some of the things that we've learned along the way.

Alexandra Harper  3:43    :  Just a little bit about Engage by Cell. We have been in business for about 14 years. Our CEO, Dave Asheim, he started this company 14 years ago, and it's just taken off. So we have about, I guess, roughly 4,000 clients in over 10 countries. We work with them to improve their ability to communicate with one another in a workplace or with employees, with our customers through multiple mobile technology platforms. And we're gonna sort of tie in a few things today with what our special guests are going to be talking about, what their experience in HR and management and consulting and sort of, you know, pick their brain a little bit and see what they think about involving mobile, with what their experience has been. Great. So, Daphne, do you want to kick it off with asking some questions to Cornelia and Barbara?

Daphne Harper  4:49    :  Absolutely. And, you know, we've all been dealing with COVID for a few months now. Gosh, almost a year. I can't believe it. And there's still a lot of uncertainty in the workplace, too. Just a question of how managers should deal with the uncertainty and what are the most important skills do you think that managers need, especially during these still uncertain times?

Barbara Mitchell  5:14    :  Well, just to play into what the your your company does, the first thing I would say that managers have to do during this time of uncertainty is communicate, over communicate. We can't over communicate during this time in order to relieve some of the anxiety that not only our employees are feeling, but I we find managers are feeling anxious, everyone is uncertain about what's to happen. And so communicating is one of the keys and you all offer an amazing platform to keep that going. We think that  employees need to know even how the managers feeling. It's wonderful when managers can show vulnerability, and can share that they themselves have some anxiety around what's happening. Nobody has all of the answers. And we're all in this together. And so we think that's one of the keys skills that managers need to demonstrate is not only communicate, but also show some vulnerability, and build trust with your employees. If they see that you are having some issues around how you're feeling, and that you don't know all the answers, it just creates a really different atmosphere. I also think that people need to be just communicating not only through technology, but there's something about the personal touch. Funny that it just has popped up over and over with the clients that we work with, where the telephone of all things, has proven to be really important for one on one communication between a leader and employees. Certainly, mobile technology can work there as well with texting, but there's something about the voice to voice that we find employees are just relating to, and it's communicating. It's just a wonderful skill that people have to have now, and also just being present. Everyone is just pulled in so many different directions. But if people can find ways to connect with their employees, managers can find ways, be it one on ones, staff meetings, whatever it is, but this, I can't overemphasize the fact that communication, keeping in touch, being honest, building trust, and showing vulnerability are the things that we think are really key right now for maintaining those relationships.

Daphne Harper  7:46    :  Cornelia, I'll ask you the same question, what do you think are some of the critical things that managers should do during these uncertain times?

Cornelia Gamlem  7:54    :  You know, I think trust is first and foremost, in what a manager should be focused on. And it's just so important that employees realize that they can go to their managers, if they're dealing with an issue, and that, you know, the manager is going to trust that the employee is working hard, and doing absolutely the best that they can, under the circumstances, because we're all under very, very different circumstances right now. And you know, it's a collective problem that we're all sharing. So if you can show your employees that you trust what they're doing, and help them to stay as focused as they can. I think that's just so critical at this point in time. I

Barbara Mitchell  8:44    :  Daphne, if I could add one more thing to this. There's a skill that we think is one of the most underrated and the whole communication is that I was talking about earlier. And that's the ability to listen and listen carefully to your employees and hear what it is that they really are feeling. And being able to listen to not just, there's a phrase that I think is used a lot, and that's listen to, not just the music, but also the words, so that you hear in between what it is that people, how they're feeling, and being able to then maybe have a one on one conversation and meet some of those needs. But listening is just something that managers really need to be good at. They always need it, but right now more than ever.

Daphne Harper  9:30    :  Agreed. So I got from you guys that it's important to have voice contact, and that's a personalization of your connection, that trust is important, and it's important to listen carefully. So one of the things I wanted to simply add is that as a supplement to those things, we believe that technology has a place. And I'd like to share with the audience, just some of the examples that our current customers are using to keep that communication in that connection going. Molly you might have some slides that can help me to just talk a little bit about this, but definitely we're seeing companies use things like pre scheduled drips that are going out weekly or monthly, or what have you, maybe with mental health tips, or just some motivational words, maybe even critical information about what's going on in our society right now. Things like discussion boards and links to a mobile web portal, which everyone typically likes, because there's no commitment with the download. So these are just some ways that employers can supplement that communication with technology. But absolutely appreciate the voice, the trust, listening carefully. So those are all great, great ways to keep that connection. Ali?

Alexandra Harper  10:55    :  Yeah, and I just want to add one really quick thing, Molly, if you don't mind, just going right back to that slide. Just for one second, when I think it was Cornelia, or Barb maybe was Barbara that just mentioned how checking in with your employees, maybe just to do a mental health check or just, you know, listening, and we actually have something on this page that if you were to text a number, you receive the link back, and it takes you to what you see on your right, which is sort of like a mobile website, but it's used for some new services that you can actually have something set up within your own company, for your employees that it's like a quiz, and they answer questions based on, you know, how they're feeling or you know, how they're feeling with still working from home or just sort of like a mental checkup. So I just wanted to add that little tidbit in right there. Because I do think that's very important.

Barbara Mitchell  11:45    :  I love that. Talk about a real, that would be a real asset to a manager to have that information about how your employees were feeling that day or on after a certain, perhaps something that happens in your company. I love that check in.

Alexandra Harper  12:03    :  I mean, it can even go so far as to, if you were the management and wanted everyone to answer, every Monday or Tuesday about what they did over the weekend, and they were exposed, you know how, like, anything that would keep people's minds at ease as people are having to go back in the office. But you know, just anything that is easier for people to be able to say, hey, well, I'm worried about this and not have to actually go into an office and tell someone about so. Let's move on to obviously that now we're all well, the majority of us are still working from home, how do you think that managers adjust their expectations upon what their workers and their employees are doing throughout the day. I mean, it's unrealistic for everyone to say that their day schedule is  the exact same as if they were in the office, you know, like we were discussing this before the call. For example, we have a TV on for background noise. And we all have pets, and you know, have to do things now that we didn't usually do before. So how do you think that managers should adjust their expectations?

Barbara Mitchell  13:16    :  I think one of the important things and it even goes back to what we were talking about a minute ago, is that managers have to learn to be flexible. And I think we all have to learn to be flexible in these new times. People have distractions in their lives right now. There are parents that are working from home and the kids are at home, going to school, so they can't stay, an employee can't stay as focused as they might have in the past on a particular task at hand. So it's important that managers realize that and you know, a lot of the managers are probably dealing with the same thing. Kind of hand in hand with that, you may have to realize that some of your deadlines for projects and tasks may have to be a little bit more fluid than they were in the past, to the extent that you can make them that way. And also recognize that, yes, if that employee is distracted somewhat during what used to be normal working hours, that employee may be occupied during a nine to five block or a nine to three block with their children. And they're going to set aside time later in the evening to get some of that work done. So it doesn't mean that they, they won't necessarily meet the deliverables. They're just   going to meet them on on a slightly different schedule. So you know, it's really important that managers recognize that and also adjust some of the goals that they may have for their employees. Some of them may be a little far reaching, given the circumstances that we're all working in right now. But it's important to recognize that they can still get the work done and you know, as we were talking earlier too, a lot of times, you may find that you have blocks of time that you aren't that distracted, and you can get a lot more done. An employee can get up and  maybe start working at six  or 7am in the morning before the kids are up or are getting settled into school. So, you know, they've got some of that flexibility built into their time. So I think that's something that's really important to keep in mind as you're looking at the work that needs to get accomplished.

Alexandra Harper  15:28    :  Great. And Barbara, I'll go ahead and ask you the same thing as well.

Barbara Mitchell  15:32    :  I think the flexibility that Cornelia mentions is exactly what is right on, but that means you've got to really understand. Managers have to understand what's happening in the lives of their employees.  I think one of the big things that I see is, one size does not fit all. Every single person that you're managing has a different set of circumstances that they're working within. And so managers have to be a little more open now and get to know their people in a way that perhaps they didn't before, and be as flexible as they can, but also be as inspirational as they can. I think that's one of the things that managers, I don't think that was part of what we thought perhaps a mid level or even an upper level manager needed to do all the time was inspire their people to be able to do good work. But now more than ever, I think we all need encouragement. We need reinforcement. We need recognition. We need to be inspired to all of the challenges that we have still want to do our best work. And I think that's a role that a manager can play. And I would just bet that  you all have some sort of a part of your platform that allows that to happen for managers using some of your mobile technology.

Alexandra Harper  16:56    :  Absolutely. Go ahead.

Daphne Harper  17:01    :  I was gonna say that the next question actually feeds into this conversation very nicely. We've talked about communication and the importance of keeping connection. We kind of talked about inspiring your employees, and also kind of understanding the headspace that one might be in. So let's say you find out that your employees are under a lot of stress, or that they're experiencing very low morale? Now, what are some tips that you can give to managers to help show employees that they're still very much valued, and that you recognize that they may even be putting in more hours now working remotely than they did when they were in the office, because those cut off times that naturally come when we're either commuting into work or commuting home from the office are no longer there. And it's just like, work all the time now. So what ways can we show people or the employee base that they are very much valued, and that you kind of see them so to speak,

Barbara Mitchell  18:02    :  One of the things I love that you showed before is in your mobile technology of having those mental health check ins with your employees. I think that you know, that's a wonderful way to, to kind of gauge the temperature of you know, what the employees may be going through. And that's still very, very critical for a manager to understand. But you know, I think managers can also encourage employees that they need to take some more time outs when they're under stress, or even just trying to juggle that home home life and work life integration that everybody's feeling now. And you know, sometimes it's a matter of, if it's a nice day, even if it's cold, but if it's a nice clear, crisp day, encourage people to go out, take a short walk. Walk around the block, walk up and down the street, but you get some fresh air, you get a little bit refreshed. You know, even sometimes doing things like yes, we all have distractions, when we work at home, but taking some time out to deal with those distractions like getting up and I've got a vacuum my bedroom today. You're getting a little exercise. People are moving around, but it's a chance for them to clear their heads. And then they're also feeling like, oh, gee, I just got something accomplished. This other little home task isn't weighing me down. So you know, recognizing that people have that opportunity to kind of move in and out. And you know, it's not a horrendous thing if somebody throws a load of laundry in the washer during the course of the day. Those are the kinds of things we were chatting about earlier that managers would be like, "oh working from home isn't going to work because people are going to be doing all of these things." Well, these things don't suck up a lot of time. We talked a little bit about bringing people together in groups. What people are missing is that connection, that physical connection with their co workers. But there's a lot again, that you can do with mobile technology to have those water cooler chats that people feel like they can come together and talk with their co workers. A lot of companies are doing the after hour virtual social events and happy hours just to give people a break. But I think we also have to recognize, too, that people can get a little bit fatigued from too much screen time as well. That's why just taking that time out to do some other things is important. One of the things that we've talked about, Barbara and I, in the past is about making employees feel valued. I'm going to jump back to some old school methods that still can work, though. The technology is great, and it's great for a manager to be able to reach out and, and get in touch with a lot of their employees relatively quickly. But sometimes there's nothing more personal than getting a handwritten note from someone. And I often tell the story about and I'm going back a number of years, but I worked for this gentleman. And every year at the holidays, he sent every partner and he was a VP in a fortune 500 company,  he sent a personal Christmas card or holiday card to everyone on his staff. And he always put a personal note in it. This isn't something he had his wife do. He did it himself. And the note in it always reflected something that happened to you, with the company during the course of the year. I was so touched the first time that happened to me, and you know, I can still remember it. So it's that sometimes just stepping outside of your own comfort zone, particularly since we've all gotten so engaged in the technology that we use today. And, you know, taking some time to do something a little bit different, may send a really powerful message to one of your employees, or all of your employees.

Daphne Harper  22:06    :  I agree. Barbara, is there anything you want to add in terms of the value conversation?

Barbara Mitchell  22:13    :  I think it's just the idea of being aware as a manager, being aware of when you communicate. Cornelia and I've been laughing about this last couple of days, about managers who send emails at all hours of the day and night and expect responses. And then they can't imagine why their employees feel like they're always on, that they don't never have a break. Well think about, you know, we love the idea of if you're sending an email, you can schedule it. Maybe you want to get it off your plate. You can schedule it to be sent tomorrow morning as opposed to two o'clock in the in the morning and expect your employee to answer it. So if managers can just be a little sensitive, and not expect that they're going to get instantaneous responses. I know that their employees are entitled to a life and you're going to get an awful lot more from your employees, if they feel valued as a human being not just an employee.

Daphne Harper  23:14    :  I think also as we reference technology, and how it can be useful in the value conversation, is that we have the ability to personalize messaging to employees so that it isn't just about work. You can send them a happy birthday. Or you can send them a happy work anniversary or something about any event that's going on that you know, their kids might appreciate. So the technology, as you stated has its place. But there are ways that it can also personalize the conversation tailored to that specific targeted person or audience. And they don't feel like "oh, another work communication." But it's actually something that lets me know my employer remembers me, and that they see me as an individual.

Barbara Mitchell  24:01    :  I think that's such a key that idea about I'm valued as a human being first and foremost. That's the intrinsic value that I think each person wants.

Daphne Harper  24:13    :  Absolutely. I agree. Ali?

Alexandra Harper  24:17    :  So there's one little tip that I want to add right there is that what's also great with how our guests like with our technology, and just with text messaging and making things personal is that, I mean, just like you were saying with a handwritten note, you've been even pushing out a text message to all your employees and saying, "Well, congratulations to Barbara today that did this." I mean, just something that has like, it's just nice and in a time right now that it's so difficult to be personal and to be one on one. There's still 100 ways to actually increase that in a workspace too.

Barbara Mitchell  24:52    :  Ali, that's such a good way, a good example of how you can use your technology, you know, because as you were saying that I was thinking, "yeah, if everybody's together in an office and you're having a staff meeting, that was usually the time when a manager would would set some time aside to say to somebody, you know, let's recognize Barbara. She did a great job, or she's having an anniversary with the organization today. And yeah, we can't do that anymore. So it's great that we have some of these other tools that we can we can accomplish the same thing and get that same message across.

Alexandra Harper  25:29    :  Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm gonna also ask a question. With all this uncertainty and change, and just the way that we're all currently working, there's probably more likely there's going to be some sort of conflict or increasing conflict now that people are not in the same physical location. So what in your own opinion can managers do to help employees deal with the changes we're all going through and to help minimize conflict?

Barbara Mitchell  25:59    :  Well, we talked a lot earlier about communication. And that's what is so important is not just for a manager communicating with their employees directly, but making sure that team members are communicating with each other. And I think sometimes, especially in these times, people are forgetting that. I know somebody I was speaking with recently had told me about a situation he had, where, through email exchanges, one of his colleagues apparently was not responding. And so he's going along, moving forward with, you know, in a direction he wanted to go, only to learn that the colleague was a little bit bent out of shape, but she had never let him know that. He said, "You know, it's funny, if we had all been in the office together, she probably would have knocked on my door and said something to me, but we're not seeing each other right now." And he said, "Yeah, she was probably also overwhelmed with emails." He understood what could be going on, but also thought, gee, maybe this could have been alleviated if she had picked up the phone or scheduled up some face to face time with him over over platforms such as zoom, or go to meetings, or something like whatever they were using, and they could have had that conversation, face to face, and not have this problem to begin with. So I think that's where a manager has to be very clear with his team and say, not everything has to come through me. You have to be communicating with each other. Particularly if it's projects that only one or two of you are involved with and encourage people to do that. The manager also has to model that behavior as well. So if he needs to get two or three team members together, he needs to go ahead and do that without involving everybody who's on team. And just make sure that those lines of communication are open across the organization, but most importantly, throughout the team. So people are all working with the same information.

Alexandra Harper  28:12    :  Great point. And, Barbara, do you have any other thoughts?

Barbara Mitchell  28:15    :  Yeah, just to add the to that, giving people tools to deal with conflict. Conflict is, what we have found, we've written a couple of books about conflict, and conflict resolution. And know that there is there's good conflict. Conflict can be very productive. It can really move an organization forward. It can be very creativity sprang from it. But when it is unresolved, and if people don't feel as if they're heard or listened to, or don't know how to deal with conflict. So we think that it's also good for organizations to maybe have some training or development, learning around how to deal with conflict in the workplace. It can make a big difference for how to confront someone. Perhaps both examples that Cornelia gave, the other person may not even be aware that there is a problem. And that can be an issue if the person who's feeling that there's conflict doesn't have the skills to bring it forward. So training can play a big part in this as well.

Alexandra Harper  29:26    :  Those are great points. Daphne.

Daphne Harper  29:32    :  It looks like there's a question in the box that I wanted to maybe put to our panelists. Do you find that employees find texts from their employer to be intrusive?

Barbara Mitchell  29:44    :  I don't think so. Maybe if it's overused, or perhaps if the timing is I mentioned if you've got your peer notification button on and you're getting texts from your manager at two o'clock in the morning and your phone is right by your ear, which I tend to do all the time, that could be intrusive. But on a normal basis, no. First of all, it's your manager. So you should be hopefully happy to hear from that person, or at least receptive to hear from that person. But it could be intrusive if it's overused.

Daphne Harper  30:23    :  I agree. Yeah, I agree. We were talking with another panelist a couple of weeks ago and she mentioned something interesting. She said that she had interviewed and hired someone without ever seeing them in person. And I thought, well, gosh, a lot of employers are probably going through the very same processes right now. So question to you, you know, do you have any suggestions for how employers might not only interview hire, but even onboard their employees right now in this remote environment that we're in? Any suggestions?

Barbara Mitchell  31:00    :  Yes, it's happening all over and quite effectively. I was on a call this morning with a group of people who were just talking about the fact that none of them had met each other. And in fact, I think, a couple of you that work for Engage by Cell, you have not met each other. I said, this is happening a lot in our world. So how do you select the best people in this situation where you're not, you're not with them physically? First of all, I think we need to train managers on how to interview remotely. And it's not a complicated thing, but maybe how you how you do things a little bit differently. And most importantly, I think, is the idea of most of us are using panel interviews. We have a screen of four or five or six people who asked the questions? Who does the summary? Making it as seamless for the employee so that they're giving good information, but they're also getting good information about the company. And then I think it's one of the things that I love about your technology is the ability to keep in touch with applicants. And just keep them in the loop using texting to just say, here's your scheduling.  You can use it for scheduling, you can use your technology for keeping the applicant informed, which is a tremendous thing. Oh, there it is right there. You've got some great products there that I think would be very valuable for both the applicant, as well as for the organization, because in order to make a good match in hiring someone, both parties have to come to the conclusion that this is a good match for both of you. And that means you've got to get good information. You've got to keep the applicant feeling like they're part of the process. I think that's a key. And scheduling is always a nightmare. But this is a good way to do the scheduling. So yes, it can be done. You can use mobile technology to send out information before the employee starts. Or one of the things I love is keeping in touch with the employee, after they accept the job but before they start. I think it's a golden opportunity to keep in touch with the applicant who's now becoming your employee. So when they, when they actually start their job, they have a lot of information that you had been feeding them during that time between the time that they've accepted the job, and when they start. Because the last thing you want is to get a call the day before someone is supposed to start. And they say,"oh, I've changed my mind. I'm not starting with you tomorrow, I've taken another job." But you've got to keep in touch with them and keep them really actively engaged already, before they even start.

Daphne Harper  33:55    :  That an excellent point that you make, but in this environment where so many are unemployed, is it I wonder if that's actually ever happened?

Barbara Mitchell  34:03    :  I actually it does still happen. 

Daphne Harper  34:08    :  Yeah. Cornelia, what are your thoughts on that? 

Barbara Mitchell  34:13    :  I think the mobile technology for recruiting is excellent. Like Barbara said it, it helps you to stay in touch with the employee. Some of us can go back and remember the days when you only had a telephone to reach out to people and you know, if you were trying to get them after hours, because you didn't want to call them while they were at their current job. It could take the process a little bit longer and a lot longer than you wanted it to. So I think this is great. I also like the idea, you know, as Barbara was talking about staying in touch with somebody after they've actually started or accepted your position. It's also a great way for some of the other team members to start to reach out to your to the applicant, and make them begin to feel welcome. We've often talked about that, even before we had the pandemic, that was such an important phase of the onboarding process. And now with with the pandemic, it's even more important. I mean, if they can hear from two or three of their team members, before they even  start working, they know that there are other people that they can reach out to, and they've already made a connection with them. So having the ability to make that initial connection, and then stay connected, I think is just an it's just incredible that, that we've got these tools to do this nowadays.

Daphne Harper  35:40    :  I agree and great points about connection being consistent before starting, and certainly after starting staying connected with your remote employee. So absolutely, Ali.

Alexandra Harper  35:55    :  Molly, if you want to take down that slide, I would love to just use these last five minutes and just talk about this new book that you just wrote. I know, it's different than the ones that you have written before. So please do tell, I'm anxious to hear about it.

Cornelia Gamlem  36:19    :  Well, we took a different approach with this book, you know. We are nonfiction writers, we write business books. And somewhere in our travels, somebody once asked me, "How do you learn how to do employee relations?" And I thought, gee, that's a good question. Because one of the ways you learn about dealing with people is through experiences, and what better way to share experiences than through stories? So we took a different approach in writing this book, and tell tales, if you will, of the kinds of things that occur in workplaces around employee behavior, and how different organizations go about addressing some of these issues and and solving them in a way that makes sure that everybody still feels valued within the organization. So it's a slightly different approach, by telling stories, as opposed to case studies. And we're hopefully engaging the readers a lot more and sharing a lot more insights into, first of all, what the world of HR is all about, because I think a lot of people have a different take on what it is that HR professionals do all day. But also to give them some insights into when you're working with other people, you're dealing with human behavior. And sometimes it isn't as straightforward or black and white, as you might think it is. 

Barbara Mitchell  37:55    :  The book is called They Did What? the question mark on the end unbelievable tales from the workplace. Correct? Okay. What we did was we interviewed a lot of people, business people, HR people and got their best or worst stories about behavior in the workplace. And so the book is some happy stories. There's sad stories. There's some funny stories. There's all kinds of things, but it's all done through stories, which we think makes it a very readable book. So we hope that people will enjoy it. It just came out in December. So hot off the press: They Did What?

Alexandra Harper  38:54    :  Great. Well, we will definitely send out, here's your information about you all and your book, if anyone wants to go and check it out. And right now we can open it up just this last minute if anyone has any questions, or if you have any more questions about our platforms, please feel free to drop your email address in the chat box. And we will definitely be getting back to you. And Natalie, we can definitely reach out to you just to regarding texting and our platforms, as well as anyone else that would like to drop your information. Any last word? Daphne or Barbara or anyone?

Daphne Harper  39:47    :  Thank you so much to both of you. This information is so valuable. It's a conversation that doesn't ever really end. But it's you know, we'd love to have you again to continue the conversation at some other time.

Barbara Mitchell  40:00    :  We would love to come back. We would.

Alexandra Harper  40:05    :  Oh, thank you both so much. Thank you everyone for attending. And we just appreciate your time and spending time with us today. So we will leave it at that. And I hope everyone has a great rest of the day.

Cornelia Gamlem  40:19    :  Thank you so much.

Barbara Mitchell  40:20    :  Thank you.

Alexandra Harper  40:21    :  Bye

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