January 13, 2021
Six months ago, returning to work didn’t seem possible, but today businesses are getting closer and closer to reopening their doors.
And one thing rings true: Technology can play a big role in implementing safety measures that protect your employees and customers.
In this webinar, Engage by Cell is collaborated with Trish Ennis, an expert in safety and risk mitigation.
Takeaways from this discussion included:
- Can you require employees to get the vaccine before returning to the office?
- Are there legal implications if you don’t require a vaccine?
- After being exposed to the virus, is a negative test enough to go back to work?
- What’s the best way to track the status of employee vaccinations?
- How can mobile technology support your safety measures in the workplace?
Dave Asheim 0:00 : My name is Dave Asheim. And I am lucky to have Trish Ennis with us. Trish was a speaker, I guess in the early days of COVID, Trish, maybe five months ago, four or five months ago, I can't remember when we had you on as a panelist, but it's great to have you back. And a lot has changed in the last few months. What we're gonna do today is spend 30 minutes with you all, and it is the chat window on your screen. It's the perfect place to just pepper us with questions. We have a little bit of an order here. So if we don't get to your question, we'll get to it at some point. There's Tom from Branson, Missouri. And so go ahead. And as questions come up, ask away, Molly and Kim from our marketing group, we'll be sending out this presentation to everybody that has signed up. So you can take notes if you like. But we'll also by tomorrow, send you a package with this as well as some really great links. We're going to start with learning a little bit about Trish, I'll tell you about myself and our company. We have invented a mobile vaccine tracker, we want to show you all so find your cell phones, we're going to have you all text in to play a little game here. And then Trish and I are going to take your questions and go over some talking points that we think you might find interesting. So Trish, maybe just tell us a little bit about your life in the world of safety. You've spent an awful lot of time on this. And I bet a lot in the last four or five months. And you even have a little personal story about COVID you could share too. So I'll let you tell us about your background.
Trish Ennis 1:52 : So I am the Executive Director for the Colorado Safety Association. And thanks, Dave, for having me back on to talk to your members and interested parties. In the Colorado Safety Association, we're a small nonprofit in Denver, Colorado, and we're a safety training and education organization and consulting. 52 years we've been in business and I've been there for three. My safety background really I was an active volunteer leader with the American Society of Safety Professionals. I'm currently the chair of their foundation, which is a scholarship program. I'm a past president for ASSP, I was their 100th President, which is the only reason I remember because it was kind of a cool number. And that was back in July 2014 through June 2015. And then my career, really I've worked in construction, consulting, the insurance industry, I worked for the Denver Zoo for a number of years. So I have a background in safety and risk management. And that's yeah, today.
Dave Asheim 3:03 : Yeah, cuz it's both it's safety and risk management because there's the risk management aspect of this too, both from a human capital point of view, as well as a legal point of view and, and client's point of view. So we are lucky to have Trish here. I'll give you 30 seconds on us. I started this company Engage by Cell about 14 years or so ago, we started off in the cultural and the nonprofit side. And then we started going to SHRM and ATD conferences, and we became heavily involved through our Train by Cell division to work with HR departments and trainers. So we have spent an awful lot of time building mobile related solutions that have to do with training and recruiting and onboarding and benefits. And so many of our clients came to us and said, How can you help us with kind of returning back to work? So our marketing team and engineering team and we all spent some time and we'll show you something in just a second that kind of relates to that. So if you ever have any needs for for mobile solutions of any sort, give us a call. All right, Molly. So today, we're going to focus as much as we can on what Trish knows about returning back to work and can she can give you tremendous guidance and has, we're going to kick it off with just showing you go to that next slide volley showing you something that we invented as a vaccine tracker. One of the biggest issues that we've heard from our HR departments is once people come back to work, my boss is going to want to know who has the vaccine, who hasn't. Whether I insist on people having the vaccine before they come back to work. Everybody's gonna want to know, management's gonna want to know what's going on. So we invented a little cool service, and we thought we would have everybody take out their phones and demo it. So if you would all do me a favor, take out your cell phone, you probably already got it in your left hand, since we're all multitasking right? Trish, you can do this too, and open up text messaging. And you're going to put the number 56512 in the to. So normally, you would put a 10 digit number but you're going to send Trish or myself a text. In this case, we're going to use some shortcode, 56512 and then the message where you would normally say hi, Dave, and Trish, put demo, put a space and then put vaccine. And when you do that, let me know in the chat window, what you get back, you should get back to text. If you're not from the US, you probably will get an error message. But we can provide the service to any country in the world. So let me know if you're getting a text back, everybody. All right, Todd got it back. Shelly. Great. All right. When you click that link, of course, that link is something that you could type out whatever you want to say, you're going to go to a webpage, and it looks like this. So go ahead, everybody, go to that web page. And there is a little icon for the vaccine tracker. So just tap that. And you'll go to a vaccine questionnaire, go ahead and fill this out, take 30 seconds, you don't have to put your real name down, you can put anything you want, you can you don't have to put your full email, just put something in the boxes, this is just all for fun. We're not recording any of this info. So we don't really want to know whether you've got a vaccine, although it would be fun to know if anybody has got the vaccine Trish. Put that in the chat window, maybe we'll ask you a few questions about that. So go ahead and just play with this. Everything you see on this little demo is something that you can customize. But we released this a few weeks or so ago, and we've got just a ton of clients now that are saying, Wow, this is gonna really help me keep organized. And keep in front of people that don't necessarily have a company email account. And the HR managers are saying to us, they do not want to manage all of this through a big excel sheet. So wouldn't it be great that people could self tell us when they're getting the vaccines? And when they're going to get the second vaccine? Because if you're really monitoring this, and we saw that about 80% of you are going to strongly suggest people get this, I'm going to guess management is going to want to know how many have the first one, how many of the second one, how many refused to do it, etc. Good question, Tanya, regarding HIPAA. You'd want to check with your HIPAA person, from what we understand, if you don't ask for sensitive information, but just ask for Have you got the vaccine? What I've read is HIPAA saying that that is something that doesn't have to be behind the firewall. This tool can be behind the firewall, we're showing you kind of the web based version. But if you needed it to be behind a firewall, because you want to ask sensitive questions, we can do that. But the idea is, I can now communicate with my workforce and find out who has got it who's got the first one. You can even set up automatic text messages to go to the individual a day before they're getting there. They're supposed to get their their second vaccine. And so this is just a tool that you can use internally to try to capture this info. Got a question from Ann, "federal government can't ask about employee medical." Yeah, there are going to be some situations where maybe you're not allowed to ask for any of this information. If that's the case, then might not be for you. But there are plenty of organizations that are saying to us, I've got to track it somehow. We'd love to be able to track it this way. Okay, so Molly, let's move on to a few other screens. You could send out text message reminders about the booster schedule. You can even send out text messages about how to stay safe. So text messaging can be part of this whole program. And of course, there's tons of reports that you can look at and import into your HR system should you want to do that. All right. Let's move on to why we are all here. Trish, when you and I talked, I think four or five months ago, we didn't have a vaccine that we knew of on the way in, now we've got two, maybe three. Is it now easier for HR managers that kind of plan what they should do? Or is it now even more confusing, because the rollout is a mess. And there's a one vaccine is the two vaccine with the legal implications? Where are we now compared to five months or so ago in your view?
Trish Ennis 10:54 : You know, that's an interesting question. I think it can be a challenging process, right? Because there are more than one vaccine, there's two, but the vaccines have been issued under the emergency use authorization or the UA. So it's technically not approved by the FDA, which adds a little murkiness to the "Can I require them to get a vaccine, if it hasn't been approved yet?" What people are doing largely are kind of mirroring their influenza vaccination policies that have been in place for a while. So the nice thing about this is that there is a little bit of background for organizations that have vaccination policies for influenza, and a lot of those are healthcare providers and people working with the elderly and things like that. So that just adds a little level of uncertainty as to the whole requirement. I think the other thing that we are dealing with is people are fearful. There's a lot of information out there, you can kind of find any supporting information you want about the vaccine. Is it safe? Is it not? If it's emergency use, has it been properly vetted? Is it going to make me sick? So you've got the fear that people may have about getting the vaccine that might go above and beyond just the typical exceptions of religious and other kinds of exceptions to wanting to get a vaccine, maybe they can't do it from a health status. And maybe they have a religious exemption? There is guidance out there. There's a lot of information out there from the EEOC, talking about ADA, Society for HR Managers, SHRM, they have a lot of information, the legal entities out there, like Fisher Phillips, which we shared last time, and some of the others, there's all kinds of policies and guidelines out there, that will help an organization that has an idea, get on the right track for what they should do. I would say, in addition to the emergency use authorization and the status of requiring it, you have to consider your local jurisdiction. So there's federal guidelines, and then you may have local jurisdictional rules in your city or area that sit on top of that and may be more restrictive than the federal guidelines. And there's also considerations for, we were talking about risk management, right? So if you require your employees to get a vaccine to return to work because of job relatedness, and they have an adverse reaction to that vaccine, you're potentially opening the door to that being a compensable under the workers compensation system, which is appropriate, right. But you have to understand that, you know, that's just one of the other pieces and parts that need to be considered in the overall policy.
Dave Asheim 14:16 : There's a question from Angie about your statement about the FDA has not approved this. Can you review with us who has approved these vaccines so far?
Trish Ennis 14:31 : Okay, so just to clarify, I'm not a medical professional or attorney and I don't even play one on TV. So my understanding about the status of this is it's FDA has given an emergency use authorization, which means that they have compiled evidence and clinical data that indicate it's meeting their rigorous scientific standards for study. This is off the website and the manufacturing quality needed to support emergency use authorization. So they're saying that they know the benefits outweigh the risks. But it hasn't gone through the full rigorous period of time with testing and the standards to say, Okay, now we're approving this forever for future use. So there's a special exception, because it's a pandemic saying it's emergency use authorization, we are confident that it's safe. And if it's not 100%, safe, we're confident that the benefits outweigh the risks. That's really this step. And both vaccines are in that EUA status as opposed to the 10 years it might take for a new drug to get full FDA approval, this has not gone through that whole process yet. Which just inserts that legal question about case law still to be determined, right?
Dave Asheim 16:02 : Yeah, there'll be plenty of that. On both sides, whose at fault? When we were prepping for this chat today, you mentioned that people might be lowering their guard a little bit. What's kind of the danger for lowering the guard? And what's your advice to all of the folks that are either managing workforces or, or involved heavily in their employees? Because I think you have some good advice.
Trish Ennis 16:35 : Right, well, and that is a real thing. In fact, I was just listening to a woman who put out the Science of Well-being class at Yale University, which is the Science of Happiness and Well-being it's sort of I think it's Yale's most popular online class ever, which is interesting. She was talking about this on a podcast I listened to yesterday that said, pandemic fatigue or COVID fatigue is a real thing. And you have been at high alert for so long, that it's just a natural thing to start wanting to relax your guard a little bit. And to just not always wear your mask or want to meet with friends or go to a restaurant. And you know, that is a challenging thing. And that's a human thing. And the longer we go without an adverse effect, personally, the easier it might be to forget, or to lower our guard. To some extent, one of the best things that we can do is to remind people of the consequences of lowering our guard and potentially infecting someone who's in a vulnerable population. And that might be a co worker, it might be a co worker who has someone they're taking care of at home, maybe someone who's compromised, you know, medically more susceptible or an elderly person. And so just trying to kind of remind people about, it's not just about your fatigue, it's about the consequences of your relaxing, I'm not even going to say error in judgment, but relaxing. So that's part of it. The other thing we're seeing, just to expand a little bit, and this was my personal experience, is testing. There's a lot of testing out there. And it's easy to rely on the testing because we get a negative test. And we feel that we don't have COVID. It reminds me of a doctor telling me once that the only thing a stress test tells you when you're on the treadmill in the doctor's office is that you're not having a heart attack at the moment, they're doing the stress test, which I thought was a little scary. But the test is designed to see if you have enough virus, on board in your nose or in your sinus cavities, or however the test you're taking measures it, to potentially be infecting others. There's still that latency period between when you're exposed and when you have enough virus for a test to detect it. And that's why we find people who have a negative test and five days later, they get sick. And you know, five days later, they're sick and they have another test and suddenly they're you know they're contagious. So the thing with the test is that it's giving you a snapshot, you can't just say oh, well, I'm negative. So I'm going to go to the grocery store without a mask or or I'm going to get together with my family and have a Christmas holiday and we saw a lot of that. People are getting a negative test when they get off the airplane. They go spend the holiday with their family, and then they fly home and they're sick when they get home. They were sort of incubating that whole time they were with their family potentially infected. My son is a volunteer firefighter. And he called me and said, I was potentially exposed at work to a guy in the fire truck. And so you can't come up this weekend because I might be contagious. Three days later, he had a test new year's eve, he calls me and goes, Hey, it's negative come up for the weekend. I have two brand new grandbabies. I'm like, yay. Nah, I'm not gonna go. It's only been three days. I was just cautious. I have a mother who's ill. You know, that's a lot of personal information. But that's my situation. So I decided to wait. Sunday, he got sick. So he's exposed on Monday, he has a test on Thursday that's negative, Sunday, he developed symptoms. That's the sort of period of time when you're going through the process. And so my cautionary tale is don't over rely on a negative test before bringing employees back to work. Or before traveling or before spending time with family members, you still have to look at the overall guidelines for isolation, quarantine waiting periods, the test is just one more tool but it's not the answer. I guess that's kind of a long comment. Hopefully it was helpful,
Dave Asheim 21:30 : Doesn't that mean though, is your management that you really want people to get this vaccine because of just what you said, unless you have the vaccine, even though I got tested today, and I got tested tomorrow, and the next day, does not mean that by Tuesday, I have had the COVID virus in me. And it's now finally, like you said, circulating in my body in large enough quantities that it's popping out so is your story then or your message, as much as you can do to influence your workforce to try to influence them towards getting the vaccine? Because what were the numbers that we saw? 40% of Americans right now are a little leery about getting the vaccine? Some crazy number, I think.
Trish Ennis 22:30 : Right. I mean, there are a lot of people who don't want to get vaccines of any kind. So it's not even this, then you layer on the emergency use authorization status of this vaccine. And you layer on all of the emotions and perceptions that have gone on with the environment that we're living in and experiencing with this pandemic, right. There are people on opposite sides of the issue. And you know, so it's not as easy as just saying, This is like getting a measles vaccine, right? Or this is like getting whooping cough, this is a different thing. It's a pandemic, and we're kind of treading new ground. Having said that, I think that the data so far is showing that I would encourage people to get the vaccine, when they are comfortable doing it. And in the workplace, when the the benefit outweighs the risk as an employer, right. And so if you're in the healthcare industries, of course, right, I think that you should absolutely even be requiring people to have the vaccine both for their own protection and for spreading it to the people you're caring for. Um, I think it gets back to really looking at making sure that the requirement to get a vaccine, in order to come back to work is in line with business necessity, and not just an arbitrary, you have to get vaccinated because I want you to, there should be some compelling job-related reason to require someone to have a vaccine before they come back. What that means that's kind of a gray area, doesn't mean that you're putting other people at risk because you're caring for them. Or doesn't mean that I don't want you to come back because everyone else will be scared if you come back and you don't have a vaccine. That may not meet the test of job related, right. So, there's a question on there that says, in a hiring process, can you ask whether the candidate is willing to take the vaccine as a condition of employment, there is some information out there on that the Society for Human Resource Management, I think that's what SHRM stands for. There is some information out there about that. And it does talk about asking someone if they're willing to take a vaccine. And there can be a case where if someone is not willing to take a vaccine as a condition of employment, you can choose not to hire them. I think the EEOC actually has some guidelines about that as well. So those are some of the links that we're going to be showing you, after I'm looking at my notes here.
Dave Asheim 25:40 : Pretty strong Trish that the vaccine is carrying that much weight that you can force someone to take a vaccine. I mean, that's kind of unheard of, in modern day employment, that you can force someone to to get a vaccine. I mean, you can't make a good vaccine for flu shot, for example.
Trish Ennis 26:03 : Oh, there are some industries that do require flu vaccination to come back to work. And so that's my point is that there is some precedents for this. And a lot of the guidelines that are being rolled out now, even by the EEOC, and some of the other organizations are looking at that. When we have the bird flu pandemic, we kind of went through this and set the stage. The difference is the flu vaccine has been around forever. This is emergency use authorization brand new vaccine rolled out in record pace, and a lot of people don't trust the speed and the lack of formal FDA approval. I think that that kind of adds to the uncertainty to some extent. Yeah.
Dave Asheim 26:48 : Do you think it's the responsibility of the folks that are on the call today, to continue the education with their employees about just what you talked about, that just because you're negative doesn't mean that you're really negative? And keep on wearing a mask? Should that burden be on the folks that are on this call to keep relaying that information out to their employees? Or is that not their job?
Trish Ennis 27:20 : I think that that responsibility lies with all of us, because this is not just a workplace issue. You know, this is a social crisis as well. So while that sounds kind of touchy feely, I would say if you're an in human resources role, or a leadership role, you're managing people, then absolutely continuing to provide good information to your employees about the status of of what's happening, and be willing to answer their questions or direct them to a healthcare professional. You know, one of the resources was saying, How do I ensure that my employees got a vaccine? Are they going to be giving me information that is HIPAA protected? And one of the ways for an organization to do that is to find a designated medical provider, send them to the provider, and then all the provider has to is confirm to the employer? Yes, they've been vaccinated, they don't have to give them any other details that violate the HIPAA relationship. But I think to answer your question, Dave, yeah, I think the more information you can give people and the more credible, as much as you can unbiased information that's more mainstream, because people are consuming information from all different perspectives. And they're going to be coming in with a conspiracy theory, they might come in with a religious exception, they might be looking at the government's website. I think that as much as we can stick with CDC and employment related information from employer to employee, the better we're going to be and educate, don't try to indoctrinate right or you're not necessarily pushing it, you're just trying to give them information.
Dave Asheim 29:24 : So many of my friends are not even really checking the various websites where you can log in and be on a list. Should that once again fall to the HR folks to have a campaign, a six month campaign to not only encourage but provide the links and resources because sometimes it's a county by county basis. It's just not very clear. But maybe the HR force can really do a big service for their workforce to lay out through emails and company announcements and even text messages, how to sign up and when to go? And if you're 58, you should do this. But if you're 60, and you have diabetes, you should go here. I think a lot of people are just sitting back thinking the phone's gonna ring one day and the CVS are gonna be on the phone, waiting for you to come in and get your vaccination. But that's just not the way it's going to be for the next three months.
Trish Ennis 30:21 : Right. Yeah, I mean, it's a challenging time for sure. The rollout, because it's been delivered to the States, and then it stops there. And the states are sort of fumbling around trying to figure out how to deliver this the best, and it changes from state to state. And the rules, they seem to change every day, I mean, I'm in Colorado, and first it was, you'll be on the list. If you're 70 and over, you get priority through healthcare, then they're saying we're gonna give it to everyone. And now they're saying there's vaccine not being used, because the groups that are being prioritized aren't coming in to get it. So I mean, it's kind of a moving target, I would say, as much information as you can give, that gives people enough to know what they might want to do is good place. But if you're an HR professional, and you've got offices in 20 states, just the process of following all the rules... You can't send out a different email to someone in Illinois, then you're going to send in Colorado versus Texas versus New York versus Washington State. I mean, you'd spend all your time just doing that.
Dave Asheim 31:40 : But they certainly can make it seem important to the company and for the well-being of the employee to start doing that research on your own. So it doesn't come at us in April, May, June, and I haven't even thought about it. And I could have been vaccinated two or three months earlier.
Trish Ennis 32:03 : Right. I mean, I think in that case, as you learn things like that, that you can share with your workforce, that's good. And then there's that fine line between what are you telling your employees as a benefit to them? And what are you requiring them to do as a condition of employment? Those two things may not be the same, you can convey information to them as a public service campaign or an employer benefit to say, hey, all of you at home, or all of you working remotely, or even all of you in the office, did you know, even though we don't require the vaccine, it's now available in our jurisdiction. You know, here's how we can help facilitate your access to it. We're gonna give you time off, we're gonna pay you while you go get it, whatever the decision is, you don't have to take vacation time. There are things that employers can do to make it easier, even if they're not mandating it. And sharing that information can be a positive thing.
Dave Asheim 33:05 : Well, and this might be the most important thing that happened from an HR point of view to a workforce, in the last 20 years, get vaccinated. And so all the articles I'm reading on SHRM and ATD, are basically promoting the idea: be aggressive HR professionals and company management, in getting information in people's hands, maybe you don't want to force them to be vaccinated, but at least tell them the various centers, tell them the websites, here's the risk, here's the pros, here's the cons, we strongly think you should be if that's your policy, and just keep the info going. Because I think an awful lot of companies are just sitting back going, Well, I don't really know where this is going. And I'm a little nervous about taking a stance on this. But I think companies have to take a stand. And we have to take a stance on this. Because otherwise 40% of Americans will not get vaccinated.
Trish Ennis 34:07 : Yeah, I mean, that's possibly true. And I think that tools like Engage by Cell, where you may have a population of employees who are not connected to an email account, or they're not in their office during the day, and maybe they check their email. Incidentally, you know, I've worked in cultural institutions, and a lot of the people are out in the facility on the grounds. I've worked I've worked with a number of zoos across the country. And I can tell you, zookeepers are not sitting in front of their computer. And so cell phones can be a good mechanism for pushing information out to your workforce to say, "Hey, here's the latest. Take a look at this." You know, and I think an education campaign doesn't necessarily have to be a "You have to get vaccinated campaign" right?
Dave Asheim 35:06 : Just let people know, here's the opportunities if your age, whatever, you're in this category, here's some websites to track it, make it easy for them to get the information. And then they will have to make that decision on their own.
Trish Ennis 35:26 : And put it on your intranet, right if you have one. So you have a question that you want to answer?
Dave Asheim 35:32 : Yeah Ian asked a question about putting aside the HIPAA things because your answer, Trisha on the HIPAA was a good one. So let's put the HIPAA aside. What you just said about using text messaging is just so right on. Many of our clients, I think we've really grown our client base because of our text messaging. What is it something like 30-40% of Americans that work for an organization do not have a company email address, whether that's a restaurant employee or a gardener or a truck driver, or on and on and on. And so using text messaging to not only have people fill out this vaccine form that we just played with on our phone, but to get information out is something that large companies like Michelin and Mary Kay and Bloomberg and some large companies have been using for a long, long time, let people sign up to get text messages, and then you can deliver information out to them and you have a pretty good sense. If you send a text, it's going to be read as opposed to an email. Molly, let's share some of those websites that Trish had found. Everybody, when we send you your follow up email tomorrow with a copy of this webinar, we're also going to include four or five links. Molly is going to just put these up on the on the web right now. Okay, here we go. Maybe Trish just comment on a couple of these. And I think there's four or five that were just flipped through. But these are really excellent websites that Trish is going to be sharing with you all.
Trish Ennis 37:16 : Yeah, I think that the EEOC, they talk about COVID from a perspective requiring vaccines. When someone is considered suffering from a disability under the ADA and Rehabilitation Act, etc, what are the EEO laws involved, there's even some advice in there in some of these websites about, if you are requiring somebody to do something that they are vehemently opposed to, and they feel that there's any grounds for contesting it, you may be kind of triggering an organized labor sort of revolt against your policies, right? So not only do you have to think about the legality, but also the morale of your employees and how you navigate that, and how do you create the messaging and understand who the most important populations are to get vaccinated? So as you kind of navigate through that, this EEOC website is structured in an FAQ for like a Q&A, it asks the question, and then gives you the answer. And it provides you links to further information. And I found it very accessible, to kind of read through and say, Oh, this really is interesting, because I hadn't thought about that, you know. So if you look at it, you'll see the links, and it goes through the whole sort of hierarchy of when do I require it? Can I make it a condition of employment? Is it HIPAA related, what employees don't have to get a vaccine and when, so this is actually a really valuable website, I think, to take a look at.
Dave Asheim 39:06 : Great Molly let's flip through a couple of really good one, too, from Paycor. They've got templates here, which are fantastic that you can use, everybody, to develop your own policy based on what they've done. Excellent.
Trish Ennis 39:25 : And they have a fillable PDF, right, that will give you the document and then there's a fillable PDF that you can use as a template, which makes it pretty easy to use. I would say anything you do like that, have someone look at it, to make sure that you're not putting a policy in place that won't work in your local jurisdiction or for your industry.
Dave Asheim 39:49 : If you're members of SHRM, let us know in the chat line up your SHRM member, fantastic organization Society of Human Resource Managers, this link that we're going to share with you may require, I don't think it requires you to pay, right Trish if you just want to read it, but we'll send you the link. And you can click.
Trish Ennis 40:14 : I think you can read up to three, three articles without paying and then they lock you out.
Dave Asheim 40:21 : Yeah, yeah. Great any more Molly that we want to share? Oh, yeah, this is a good one too. Fisher Phillips is really excellent on their vaccination policy. So we will include all of these in in the email. Any more questions for Trish, before we wrap this up, we've been on here forty minutes or so. If so, put them in the chat window. Anybody that wants the slides and links, we're going to send that off to you automatically. If there are some people in your organization that didn't participate, go ahead and put their email if you want it, send it to the panelists, and Molly, and Kim will send off a copy of that. So all the links will be going to all the attendees, if any of you folks want a little demo on the vaccine tracker and what you can do with it and how to get around any issues internally. Let us know. And we'll be glad to help you look at that as well. Any more questions? Thank you, Dee, and Angie, and Ian and Trevor, and everybody. We'll stick around here for a few more minutes, if anybody has more questions, but Trish, thank you so much for sharing your insight. I know it's a stressful time with your son getting COVID. And you trying to advise everybody in Colorado on what to do correctly. So it's not easy being in your in your position. So we will hang out here. But thank you, everybody for for participating. I think there's another question about how would the employer get the information? Well, the information can can rest in a cloud system that we set up for you. Or it can go over behind your firewall and you collect it in an HR database that you manage. So it's not an app that sits on somebody's phone, they would either receive a link via email, or they would text in and fill out a little form. And all that info can be stored on the Engage by Cell cloud, which you can download, or it can be stored behind your firewall. So we can go either way on that based on how complex you want to make it. So thank you for your question. And I think that wraps it up. So thanks Trish for your insight again.
And we'll keep our fingers crossed that the vaccines work and that we all get them. And that this all is just a really bad memory.
Trish Ennis 43:09 : That would be wonderful. I'm looking forward to traveling again.
Dave Asheim 43:14 : All right, everybody.
Trish Ennis 43:15 : Well, thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity.
Dave Asheim 43:18 : Thank you for sharing. Thanks, everybody. And thank you have a great day.